NEED HELP ASAP!!! Male mustang being eaten alive!! - 2006/01/07 13:42Last night my male mustang seahorse was perfectly normal, he was swimming arround, and hitching well. However, when i woke up this morning i found him lying on his side with a nassarius snail on him. I though he might be dead, untill i removed the snail. He sprang to life, ands swam into a corner only to lye back down in a tuft of hair algea. I saw where the sanils had been, becasue he had two scars on his side. One on each side of his main fin. they are small, the largest one only being about half the size of a dime. However, i can literaly see throught his skin, and see his white flesh that the snails had been eating. What do I do? I am garding him from the snails right now when ever any of them come close, i push them back to the other side of the tank only for them to come back again.I also have been feeding him volcano shrimp. Im not sure if he has eaten any of them, but he might have. What Do I do?
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SEAGAZER
User Big Kauna
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Re:NEED HELP ASAP!!! Male mustang being eaten alive!! - 2006/01/08 09:17Hi, Not very experienced here. I'm shocked! I have nasarius snails also. I haven't had this problem. I have notice flatworms on my horse once. She just shrugged it off. I can't imagine a healty horse not being able to shrug off these snails. When was the last time you saw your horse feed? If you haven't actually seen her feed I would focus on getting something down her. One of our members recently discovered that they could put mysis in a toothbrush and bait his horse into eating. I've tried it since, and it does work. If your feeding live volcanic then maybe you could dangle the shrimp in front of her. Not being very experienced my only guess would be there is something else going on, and she is very week. I'd keep an eye on the rest of your clean up crew. Is there a way to isolate her until Pete gets back monday morning? Good luck! Best rgds Seagazer
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I just read your post about the problem you but having with your male Mustang this morning, as well as the messages you posted on the Ocean Rider Club (Yahoo) asking for help. I'm very sorry to hear that your Mustang passed away before I had a chance to respond, but I will be happy to help you figure out what may have happened after the fact and help prevent a recurrence of these problems in the future. All my condolences on your loss, sir!
First of all, I would like to reaffirm what others have already told you -- namely that your Nassarius snails are almost certainly not the cause of your seahorse's demise. Nassarius are carnivorous snails, of course, but they are not predatory by nature; rather, they are scavengers that specialize in cleaning up detritus and decaying organic matter. Their usual modus operandi is to bury themselves in the sand until they detect something to scavenge. They are attracted by the odor of dead and decaying organic matter, which is what makes them so useful for cleaning up the meatier leftovers in a seahorse tank. But as a rule, they have no interest whatsoever in healthy fishes and I have never known one to molest a seahorse in any way.
If you discovered your Mustang lying on the bottom with two Nassarius snails feeding on the seahorse, it is very likely that the seahorse was ailing to begin with and unable to hitch or perch normally, and that the Nassarius were subsequently attracted to the site of already infected tissue, which was giving off the odor of infection and putrefaction. I don't think the Nassarius snails caused the injuries you noticed around his dorsal fin; I suspect they were attracted to the wounds by the scent given off by the necrotic tissue from these already existing lesions. (This is somewhat akin to the way maggots used to eat away the dead and decaying tissue from wounded soldiers left on the battlefield for extended periods during the Civil War era; these flesh-eating maggots did not cause the soldiers' wounds, but were deposited at the sites of the injuries by flies attracted by the odor of putrefaction from the necrotic tissue, and, at times, the services performed by the maggots in that regard helped save lives by preventing wounds from becoming gangrenous, preventing blood poisoning, or keeping superficial infections from becoming systemic.) In short, I think your Mustang was already in the process of dying when the Nassarius snails began their grisly work of cleaning up necrotic tissue from existing lesions.
The appropriate treatment in a case like that would be to isolate the infected seahorse and treat him with broad-spectrum antibiotics that are absorbed well through the skin, such as neomycin sulfate or kanamycin sulfate combined with nifurpirinol (brand name Furanase), or perhaps neomycin combined with sulfa compounds. If the seahorse's breathing was affected, a dip or bath in methylene blue may also have been helpful. It sounds like you were in the process of doing just that, Bob, but the Mustang was already too far gone to respond to any treatments. By the time you noticed that he was in severe distress and the snails became involved, your Mustang may already have been beyond help.
At this point, my main concern would be to correct what ever conditions may have led to your Mustang's ailment in order to assure that none of your other seahorses are affected. Here are some general tips on disease prevention and control that may be helpful in that regard.
Disease Prevention
When it comes to the health problems of seahorses, there are several points I cannot emphasize strongly enough: (1) stress is by far the greatest killer of seahorses; (2) wild-caught seahorses are far more susceptible to stress and find aquarium conditions far more stressful than captive-bred seahorses; (3) poor water quality is by far the most common cause of stress in small, closed-system aquaria; and (4) disease prevention is ALWAYS the best cure.
The first rule of successful seahorse keeping is to avoid wild-caught seahorses like the plague. The hobbyist can prevent a number of disease problems simply by stocking his system with hardy, High Health captive-bred seahorses.
The second rule of successful seahorse keeping is to provide them with a stress-free environment. Many of the parasites and pathogens that plague our pampered ponies are ubiquitous -- present in low numbers in most everyone's systems or within the seahorse's body itself (Indiviglio, 2002). As a rule, healthy fish resist such microorganisms easily, and they only become a problem when seahorse's immune system has been impaired, leaving it susceptible to disease (Indiviglio, 2002). Chronic low-level stress is one of the primary factors that suppresses the immune system and weakens the immune response, opening the way to infection and disease (Indiviglio, 2002). Long-term exposure to stressful conditions is very debilitating. Among other effects, it results in the build up of lactic acid and lowers the pH of the blood, which can have dire consequences for seahorses for reasons we'll discuss later.
When disease breaks out in an established aquarium it is therefore generally an indication that something is amiss with your aquarium conditions. A gradual decline in water quality is often a precursor of disease (Indiviglio, 2002). Poor water quality is stressful to seahorses. Prolonged stress weakens their immune system. And an impaired immune system leaves the seahorse vulnerable to bacterial, viral, and fungal infections to which healthy, unstressed seahorses are immune. As if that weren't bad enough, there are a number of environmental diseases (ammonia poisoning, heavy metal poisoning, hypoxia, acidosis, etc.) that are caused directly by water quality problems.
With this in mind, it's important to review the most common stressors of captive seahorses. These include the design of the aquarium itself. A poorly designed seahorse setup that lacks adequate cover and shelter, or has too few hitching posts, will be stressful to the occupants (Topps, 1999). Seahorses are shy, secretive animals that rely on camouflage and the ability to conceal themselves for their safety and survival. A sparsely decorated tank that leaves them feeling vulnerable and exposed will be a source of constant stress (Topps, 1999). The seahorse setup should have plenty of secure hiding places so they can conceal themselves from view completely whenever they feel the need for privacy. It should be located in a low traffic area away from external sources of shock and vibration.
Needless to say, rapid fluctuations in temperature, pH, salinity and other aquarium parameters must also be avoided. A large aquarium of 40 gallons or more provides much greater stability in that regard than does a smaller setup. The greater the water volume in the aquarium and sump, the more stable the system will be.
Heat stress is especially debilitating and dangerous for seahorses due to a number of reasons (Olin Feuerbacher, pers. com.). For one thing, elevated temperatures can have a very detrimental effect on the immune system of fishes. This is because many of the enzymes and proteins involved in their immune response are extremely temperature sensitive (Olin Feuerbacher, pers. com.). Some of these protective enzymes can be denatured and inactivated by an increase of just a few degrees in water temperature (Olin Feuerbacher, pers. com.). So when seahorses are kept at temperatures above their comfort zone, their immune system is compromised and they are unable to fend off diseases they would normally shrug off.
At the same time heat stress is weakening the seahorse's immune response, the elevated temperatures are increasing the growth rate of microbes and making disease organisms all the more deadly. Research indicates that temperature plays a major role in the regulation of virulence genes (Olin Feuerbacher, pers. com.). As the temperature increases, virulence genes are switched on, so microorganisms that are completely harmless at cooler temperatures suddenly become pathogenic once the water warms up past a certain point. Thus both the population and virulence of the pathogens are dramatically increased at higher temperatures (Olin Feuerbacher, pers. com.).
This is true of Columnaris and certain types of Vibrio. At cool temperatures these bacteria are relatively harmless, but at elevated temperatures they become highly contagious, virulent pathogens that kill quickly.
In short, it's doubly important to keep seahorses at the proper temperature. Because of the reasons mentioned above and the fact that water holds less and less dissolved oxygen as it warms up, seahorses generally tolerate temps at the lower end of their preferred range much better than they handle temperatures at the upper limit of their range.
Incompatible tankmates are also stressful for seahorses. This includes not only aggressive, territorial fishes and potential predators but also inoffensive species that are restless, active fishes. Seahorses may be uneasy around fishes that are always on the go, swimming tirelessly back and forth.
Other common stressors for seahorses include overcrowding, overfeeding, stray voltage, and a host of issues related to water quality: ammonia or nitrite spikes, high nitrate levels, inadequate circulation and oxygenation, high CO2 levels and low 02 levels, low pH, etc., etc., etc (Giwojna, Jun. 2002).
In short, if hobbyists provide their seahorses with a stress-free environment, optimum water quality, and a nutritious diet, they will thrive and your aquarium will flourish with a minimum of problems. Preventing disease in the first place is infinitely preferable to trying to treat health problems after the fact.
When disease breaks out in an established aquarium it is therefore generally an indication that something is amiss w and ith your aquarium conditions. A gradual decline in water quality is often a precursor of disease (Indiviglio, 2002). Poor water quality is stressful to seahorses. Prolonged stress weakens their immune system. And an impaired immune system leaves the seahorse vulnerable to bacterial, viral, and fungal infections to which healthy, unstressed seahorses are immune.
At the first sign of a health problem:
Because diseases are so often directly related to water quality, or due to stress resulting from a decline in water quality, when trouble arises the first thing you should do is to break out your test kits and check your water chemistry. Very often that will provide a clue to the problem. Make sure the aquarium temperature is within the acceptable range and check for ammonia and/or nitrite spikes first. See if your nitrate levels have risen to harmful levels and look for a drop in pH.
Be sure to check your dissolved oxygen (O2) level too. A significant drop in O2 levels (6 - 7 ppm is optimal) is very stressful yet easily corrected by increasing surface agitation and circulation to promote better oxygenation and gas exchange. At the other extreme, oxygen supersaturation is a red flag indicating a potentially deadly problem with gas embolisms (Gas Bubble Syndrome).
If any of your water quality parameters are off significantly, that may well be the cause of the problem or at least the source of the stress that weakened your seahorses and made them susceptible to disease. And correcting your water chemistry may well nip the problem in the bud, particularly if it is environmental, without the need for any further treatment.
Clean Up & Perform a Water Change
After a quick check of the water chemistry to assess the situation, it's time to change water and clean up. In most cases, the surest way to improve your water quality and correct the water chemistry is to combine a 25%-50% water change with a thorough aquarium clean up. Siphon around the base of your rockwork and decorations, vacuum the top 1/2 inch of the sand or gravel, rinse or replace your prefilter, and administer a general system cleaning. The idea is to remove any accumulated excess organic material in the sand/gravel bed, top of the filter, or tank that could degrade your water quality, serve as a breeding ground for bacteria or a reservoir for disease, or otherwise be stressing your seahorses. [Note: when cleaning the filter, your goal is to remove excess organic wastes WITHOUT disturbing the balance of the nitrifying bacteria. Do not dismantle the entire filter, overhaul your entire filter system in one fell swoop, or clean your primary filtration system too zealously or you may impair your biological filtration.]
At first glance your aquarium parameters may look great, but there are some water quality issues that are difficult to detect with standard tests, such as a decrease in dissolved 02, transitory ammonia/nitrite spikes following a heavy feeding, pH drift, or the gradual accumulation of detritus. A water change and cleanup is a simple preventative measure that can help defuse those kinds of hidden factors before they become a problem and stress out your seahorses. These simple measures may restore your water quality and correct the source of the stress before your seahorses become seriously ill and require treatment.
Best wishes with all your fishes, Bob!
Respectfully, Pete Giwojna
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shortiesrule55
User Big Kauna
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Re:NEED HELP ASAP!!! Male mustang being eaten alive!! - 2006/01/18 17:17Thanks pete i did a test on the water quality, and amonia, nitrate and nitrite were all undetectable. I think it was probably due to stress from being out in the open, and not having enough hiding places.... The reason being, i am cooking my liverock, and so its not in the tank for them to hide in... They really have no place to hide. The rock will be done in a few days hower, so that will be good for the other female. She is just fine, showing no signs of sickness, or stress. She eats (when im not in the room), and moves about... Thanks for your Post Ill take that into much consideration.
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nigelseahorse
User Big Kauna
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Re:NEED HELP ASAP!!! Male mustang being eaten alive!! - 2006/03/01 17:49wow...... that is very odd how the snails would attack. i had a seahorse that was attacked by hermit crabs. I got rid of them as soon as i could!!!
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dusty_rider
User Reef Raider
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Re:NEED HELP ASAP!!! Male mustang being eaten alive!! - 2006/03/04 18:40greetings, i don't add very often and , my 2 cents is always free. Snails are usually part of the "cleaning crew" of the aquarium. So I doubt that they were "attacking" the sea horse. I'ts more likely the seahorse was failing due to another factor & the snails were taking care of business so, to speak. Water quality is so, so! important. Any noticeable amount of " Hair Algae" growth within a normal maintance period could indicate a partial water change is needed. ORRRRRR..... more oxygen flow is needed, or to many nutrients are being introduced into the" MINI" environment than it can handle. Try to remember to do just enough, but not to much. Easier said than done. i know. good luck.
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